Hello and welcome to this episode of the Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Today, I have the benefit of talking to Brett Downes. Brett Downes of Haro Helpers Brett, welcome to the show, calling us from Cardiff in South Wales.

Yeah, the journalist whisperer was a bit of a punt on my path. I spoke to a LinkedIn expert and they was just something to stand out and put it on there about six months ago. And I just haven't had the time to take it down, but it's good in a way because it just, you say, it gives you a little bit of notoriety, not in a bad boy way, but in a just slight, something slightly different, isn't it? So in terms of getting, sorry, I've lost my train of thought there. What was the question?

The question was, how do you help entrepreneurs to get noticed all the way from South Wales?

Yeah. So we're a conduit. So we're the in-between men for people that want to get themselves published on well-known articles such as Forbes, Cosmopolitan and websites that, really. So we're a ghostwriter. So we put words in other people's mouths in a good way. So essentially, if people don't have the time or don't have the expertise or just they want someone to do it for them, we will approach journalists on their behalf, pretending to be them and provide their expert comments in the hope of getting them published on the aforementioned articles. So there's a couple of things in there, aren't there, Brett?

So one is the pitching and the other is the writing. Do you want to just tell us what makes a great pitch? Because journalists get a lot of inquiries every day. What makes a great pitch to get them to say, yeah, that's a good story?

Yeah. So you've got different journalists have different approaches, prefer different approaches. So in this time and time and age, journalists are very time poor. So one of the reasons they use the platform that we take advantage of is because they don't have time to reach out to, say, 50 experts and ask them the question about something in particular. So they'll post on this platform, they'll post the question once and they'll get 100, 150 responses from people myself and competitors and also other entrepreneurs. So the way to stand out is be quick because they're going to get 100, 150 pitches and some of the pitches are going to be quite similar. So it's first come, first serve sometimes, especially if it's a generic, broad question. Subject line is very important because, of course, that, if they're wading through 100 emails, then the subject line needs to stand out. And one thing we advise people that, because we give advice as well, we don't just do it for people that got some startups or people that don't use our service, don't have the budget or want to try it themselves. Answer the question first. Don't waffle on. Don't tell them how great you are, even if you are super great. Just give them the answer they're looking for, but give it in a punchy, concise manner without being too salesy. So you're there to provide the advice, not, fluff your ego and tell them how great you are, because essentially the journalists are looking for advice in the article as opposed to the person who's given it. And I think that depending on the journalist, so we research the journalists and we'll see what they've used before, whether they stats, whether they long comments, whether they're very much structured in their answers or they'll either they offer a balanced approach or they'll use lots of different opinions. So it's just, being quick, being concise, answering the question and doing your research, because I said, you're competing against 100, 150 people. So the way to stand out is to give a great answer essentially. And that's backed that up with stats and your expertise at the end of the approach.

Now, Brett, you've mentioned a platform there. Do you want to tell us which platform you're talking about?

Yeah, it's called helpareporterout.com. It's known commonly as Hayro. So it's essentially just, I think it's been going since 15, 20 years by a guy called Peter Shankman. There are alternatives to that, which, Hayro is the main one for us because it's US based and 90% of the articles that are written are published on .com sites. So there are other outlets available, I guess, but it's very much, it really helps a journalist. I said, just now it gives them the, it just helps them get, 50 expert answers quite quickly, as opposed to chasing down experts in different fields and so on. So it's, it's a very helpful platform for them, which we've taken advantage of.

Okay. So that's Hayro. What about if people are not looking at American sites, maybe they're Asia, for example, or other languages do, do of other platforms that help of a similar nature?

Yeah. So there, we recently wrote an article about alternatives to Hayro. It's eight or nine. It's probably more, it's more each, each, every, every few months, there's a, there's a few more coming out. So for example, in Australia, there's a, there's a company called Sourcebottle and that's primarily published on Australian sites. There are other ones called Press Plugs. There's JustReach, JustReachOut is another one. So they, they're slightly different versions of it. They're not, they don't all follow the same model, but I can, you can mention some in the show notes in terms of something the guys can look at, people can look at to see the alternatives to what we use. We actually trial them out on a, on a month to month basis just to check how well they work for certain clients. we have two or three clients based in, based in Asia, which they're happy to have links on, on American websites, but also they benefit them greatly to have links, a little bit more regional or national to them as opposed to all the way over in United States.

Now Brett, you've also got a service that sounds interesting, which is helping people to shortlist the Hayro requests. Cause I get those Hayro requests three times a day, and there's too many. So how do you help people to filter those and organize their outreach?

Yeah. So it's a software service we're developing. So we have two types of, of clients, really. We have the ones who don't have the time or they have the budget or they don't have the expertise and use us to ghost write for them. But then essentially it's the other end of the market, whether it's startups, whether it's local businesses, whether it's people that want to try the service themselves, some people don't want to help it out. They'd to, muck in and do, do the dirty work themselves. So this essentially, the newsletter, as you mentioned, essentially deciphers them into a spreadsheet, simple enough spreadsheet. It doesn't win any design awards, but it's, it solves its purpose. So if you were looking for a website of a certain authority of a certain age or has certain amount of traffic to the site or whether it links to your website or links to your social, you have options and filters, for example, when you're searching for a hotel, you'll search location, the price you'll search local amenities. So it's similar to that setup where you can cherry pick the websites you're going for, because we'll write 3,000, 4,000 pictures a month for clients, but you're not going to have that time to do it yourself. So you might write one or two a day. So essentially it's, it's being able to cherry pick the ones which, which would best serve your business. And also the ones which would be, which would be more helpful. There's some websites that will use your comments, but won't link. So if you, if you don't want that, then you just filter that out. So if you're writing one email, you want to get the biggest bang for your buck. So that's essentially serving the opposite end of the market. So that's, we use it ourselves for, for when we're picking for different clients, but it's very much a service for entry level or for someone who wants to, wants to give it a bash themselves.

Yeah. Or even for another agency, I can see that being useful if you've got multiple clients and you want to, sort that by keyword, really, really helpful, that service as well. So Brett, you mentioned there about links. Can you just explain how that works? Because obviously you would to be quoted in an article, but my understanding is as well, that journalists and publications don't want to lose the traffic. So they don't want to link from you, from their website to your website, for example.

Yeah, this is one of those, it's an old wives tale is it's a leaky bucket. So if you poured, if you poured a gallon of water into a bucket, a bucket has all the water. So, having links out of that bucket would be poking holes in it. So people feel they lose link juice, but it's not anymore. It's, it's, if you're linking to websites associated with what your article is talking about or associated with the content that you're publishing, then it just, it passes on that authority without losing it. So if you recommended, if you recommended another expert to me, I wouldn't think any less of you. That would just make me feel better of that expert. So it's, but you mentioned that just at the start of that question, there's some people that believe that that happens, so they won't link out. So the spreadsheet helpfully filters out those ones who are still, a little bit behind that marketing curve, which ones you want, that's, you can filter out the guys that think they'll lose equity. So you wouldn't pitch them and you won't waste your time not getting a link.

So that's another consideration, isn't it, Brett? What about hashtags? Because there are hashtag journal, journal requests, for example, any sharing you can give about how people can follow hashtags to find out what journalists are looking for?

Yeah. The, the, the, the two, the two biggest ones are Heyro request and PR request. So you can just follow them on Twitter and essentially you would, you'd go on there and the journalist might be asking a question similar to what they ask on Heyro. And then you would DM them or reach out and you provide a comment on the client. These ones are Heyro tends to run on a calendar. So essentially if you provide a quote, it's probably not going to be live. So about five or six weeks later, if someone's using Twitter, the hashtags, it's, it's a trending topic usually. So that will probably get published the same week. So that's one of the differences in terms of if you want links now use that platform, but again, that's competitive. So it's, you get a lot of people going into that. The, there is a, for the tech minded of people, they are, you can use platforms such as Zapier and if this, then that, which actually brings that into a spreadsheet for you. So essentially if you're, if you're an insurance company and you didn't want to wait for those requests every day, looking for insurance quotes, you could set up a simple, simple synchronization that downloads insurance call outs daily to a spreadsheet. And then you could just look at that once a day and reply to that. So there are ways where you can, you can automate and make your time more efficient. And we actually have, I actually have a template for that. If someone wants to use that. So in terms of if people reach out to us and they don't want to use our business, I don't say, okay, thanks. See you later. It's very much, there's a, there's a tips how to do it yourself. So it's a, an article that we've written. It's a cheat sheet. But then also if people want that, if they want that formula for the Twitter, we give that away as well, because it's you say, it's not, they're not, not leaving us or going to a competitor. They just can't afford it, or they just want to do it themselves. And there's enough, there's enough business to go around the world. So we don't essentially, cut our nose off despite our faces. Our job is to help people. And essentially, people will refer, refer people to us later down the line, if we've provided them with good service. It's not all about short term, essentially. It's, it's building relationships we do with a journalist, client or no client, customer or no customer, journalist or not. It's building that rapport with people. So what's it, don't burn your bridges on the way up because you don't know who you'll meet on the way down.

That's it. Well, look, speaking of burning and also trending issues, of course, for all of us, the, the Ukraine issue is something that's on everybody's mind. And more and more companies are having to address and taking positions on Ukraine and Russia, from a PR point of view, and what Heyro is asking for. Can you give us some observations, Brett, about what is trending, what companies are doing or should be doing with their PR?

Yeah, it's probably a question for a greater mind of mine, but in terms of Heyro, especially, it's, I mentioned the editorial content, but anything trending or anything current news, popular culture, you'll always get those questions and journalists asking for expert insights in the article. So we're finding in a good way that lots of people are reaching out, trying to help companies in Ukraine, take refugees in, things of that. And I think one of the things that people who feel helpless at the moment to, Ukraine's a long way away from where I am. So you can't just go over and help someone out your neighbor. It's, I think money is, is one of the driving things because money does help the world go around, whether it's helping housing people, whether it's providing aid relief, or, even bulking up their army so they can defend themselves. There's lots of companies that are taking donations, or there's a company called Ahrefs. There's a gentleman called Tim Sulu, who's the chief marketing officer. Essentially, he's, he's the voice of that company anyway, . So NXS is a Michael Hutchence, for example, everyone knows Michael Hutchence, and he's a drummer. He's not even the lead singer, but he's, he's very much the front of that company, and he's Ukrainian. And so one of the things he's, he's done is that you pay to use their platform, which checks backlinks for your company, but anything you pay to that company, so the service, they'll, they'll double it and send that money as aid relief to Ukraine. So, people are using the service anyways, and people are not donating extra money, but maybe they're doubling their subscription, or they I'll pay for, I pay on a monthly basis, but I'm going to pay for a year, because they give you double the subscription. People pay that money anyway, so it's, it's going to a good cause, obviously, and it's obviously, it's somewhere close to his, that's his homeland, and I think his parents or whatnot, maybe still, still reside there, so.

So, Brett, are you suggesting to clients that they, that they take a position right now in Ukraine? Are you finding clients asking you to write position pieces? No, sorry.

We, we tend to stay away from political questions, unless the client explicitly asks us to do it for them, because our, part of our onboarding is, again, to know the client, the company, so we can write in a tone of voice, which you shouldn't be able to tell the difference if they answer the question, or if I answer the question. We would just, we would just, send it in a, in a punchy, more concise manner. If they do want to get involved, then we let them, and, everyone has an opinion on the war, and it tends to be all in the same direction. It's, it doesn't seem very partisan, so if people want to do that, they can, but essentially, it's, I think, I would, I would, I would advise people to do it on their own platforms, as opposed to use me for that, because it's, it's, I think, getting publicity for your company, getting backlinks for your company is, is obviously good in terms of business, but then it could be tainted with someone's taking advantage of the situation to get, to get themselves known, so I would, maybe, to find journalists that are writing about it, then reach out to them personally yourself, so I'm not doing myself out of a job, I'm not cutting, I think that's, that's something that you wouldn't want someone to, to mimic you or send it on your behalf, I think. You stand by your own views, then it can't be taken out of context or misconstrued, because what I wouldn't want is someone to come back and say, oh, we didn't actually say that, our, our agency said it, and, that's why I think, in terms of personal, controversial, anything on that landscape, you're not doing it for your business, you're doing it, you're doing it out of duty, you're doing it out of personal preference, so I would advise you just, you can use the platform to find the information, but I wouldn't use a company to post on your behalf.

Right, interesting, so the importance of being authentic, really, there, Brett, about, about your own self, your own voice, now, you're an entrepreneur, and you've got your own business, Haro Helpers, how are you getting noticed as an entrepreneur, what, what tools and strategies are you using?

It's quite strange, really, because I'm a ghost writer, I'm trying not to get noticed as much, because I'm, I'm pushing you, I'm pushing you to the front of the queue, I'm making you walk the plank, and I'm the one, pushing you over, but in terms of getting the company noticed so much, we use a variety of platforms, I'm from a digital marketing background anyway, and I find that we will use, referrals is a massive source of business for us, because we do a great job, and those clients will recommend other people, or they'll have other businesses they'll use for us, we use PPC, we use social media, especially the journal, the journal request hashtag things, so we don't push our business as much on there, we just offer advice, lots of people use that, journal requests are private business owners or small companies, so we will just throw out some tips to help them, get more success, and in terms of other things that we use, it's direct email, we use LinkedIn, so we run the whole gamut of digital marketing really, if we find that referrals is probably the bulk of our business, and we don't want to get too big as a company, I'm happy with the status quo, because it's, once you start running, you got 14, 15 employees, when you start getting to triple figures, it takes the fun of what I do, and it, instead of a hobby and a career, it turns into a job, so it's essentially the leaking bucket thing really, it's just, we'd rather keep the amount of clients we have right now, and just add a couple every couple of months or so, rather than keep getting new clients, keep getting new clients, and keep losing clients, it's the churn and burn, and also, the longer a client is with us, the better them, the longer you're friends with someone, the more them, the more you can speak for them, so essentially, the longer you're with us, the more value and the better we provide information on behalf of yourself to journalists.

Brett, thank you for sharing that really honest and genuine approach to your business as well, if people want to find out about you, how can they find you?

Yeah, so we're called Haro Helpers.com, so it's pretty much exactly what it says on the tin, we help you with heroes, whether we do them for you, or we help you get more success in pitching yourself, same on Instagram and Twitter, so the hashtag is at Hero Helpers.

Brett Downes, thank you so much for joining me on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur Show.